Rory Sutherland

The World’s Largest Loyalty Programs™ research report from Let’s Talk Loyalty is now available. Download it by subscribing to our newsletter on the World’s Largest Loyalty Programs™ now. --------------- In this episode we are delighted to interview Rory Sutherland and Dan Bennett, respectively the President Emeritus and the Senior Partner, Lead of Behavioural Science, for Ogilvy Consulting. Rory has a fascination with the vagaries of human decision making – he sees the world of advertising, marketing and loyalty as a sort of Galapagos Island for behavioural science. An accidental TikTok star...

In a world where 75–80% of ad spend is digital, why is Digital Strategy Director at the7stars, Jonny Harrison, making the case for direct mail? That’s because he’s seen how it wins the attention economy. For episode 20 of Mail Unleashed, Jonny has joined our host Rory Sutherland to break down: Why digital struggles to get creative right and how direct mail can help How “hand-delivered communications” can earn 90 seconds of undivided attention Why no media channel is truly expensive if it drives the right outcome Why precise geo-targeted marketing is often overlooked in digital marketing How programmatic mail bridges digital efficiency with physical impact Plus, they reveal why the most underrated media channel could be the most effective one in your mix. 00:00 Intro 00:41 Welcome to Jonny 01:47 Why is Jonny, a Digital Strategy Director, making a case for direct mail? 04:21 Why do digital display ads struggle creatively? How looking at physical mediums can help 07:01 Marketing vs attention. Direct mail generates 90 seconds of undivided consumer attention 10:52 The rise of retail media and the opportunities mail can bring 13:34 The problem with relying on AI in digital marketing 15:18 Programmatic mail: why physicality is so important in today’s digital world 18:00 The power of geo-targeting in physical and digital marketing 22:48 Why digital-first brands benefit from using direct mail. Example from Ocado and Waitrose 24:27 Is any media channel actually expensive? 27:28 Outro Jonny Harrison is a Digital Strategy Director at the7stars, the UK’s largest independent media agency. He focuses on driving advertising performance through data, technology and experimentation across channels. Jonny also supports new business, leads internal events, and contributes to the IAB Mobile Steering Group and Performance Council. Follow Jonny. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/j-harrison430/ Follow Rory. LinkedIn - ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland/⁠ X - ⁠https://x.com/rorysutherland⁠ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@rorysutherlandclips?lang=en Watch the full episode. <stro

Welcome to a special live episode of the Everything Electric podcast, recorded right in the heart of Oxford Street thanks to @renaultgroup . This is a rare, unfiltered conversation with three of the most influential voices in clean energy and human behaviour: Greg Jackson (CEO, Octopus Energy) Rory Sutherland (Behavioural Science, Ogilvy) Robert Llewellyn (Fully Charged) We're living through a strange moment. Clean energy is advancing faster than ever… yet the global system still clings to fossil fuels, geopolitical instability, and outdated market rules. So what's really going on? In this episode, we explore: Why fossil fuels are fundamentally inefficient (and losing ground) The surprising psychology behind EV adoption (spoiler: it's not about saving the planet) How the UK's electricity pricing system is distorting costs The idea of an "energy pension" and how solar could deliver ~11% returns Why countries like China are racing ahead while others hesitate Standout moments: "Oil and gas are like an abusive partner… it's never going to be different." The "Château Pétrus" analogy that perfectly explains energy pricing Why petrol stations might soon look… completely outdated "You just plug it in like a phone. Shut up." This conversation is about technology, economics, human behaviour, and what the future will actually feel like. Enjoy! 00:00:00:00 Welcome and a little caveat! 00:01:10 Ad Break 00:01:32 Set the scene 00:05:20 Greg Jackson, Rory Sutherland & Robert Llewellyn 00:07:00 Why? 00:09:41 Robert Llewellyn on Efficiency and Internal Combustion Engines 00:11:18 Rory Sutherland on EV Hostility 00:16:14 The Energy Crisis and Fossil Fuel Industry "Audacity" - Greg Jackson 00:20:53 Oil and Gas - an "Abusive Partner"?! 00:22:56 Market Reform and the Future of BP and Shell 00:28:10 Harm Reduction vs Perfectionism 00:30:45 The Norwegian Paradox and Imported Emissions 00:33:11 Marginal Pricing: The "Pint of Beer" Analogy 00:34:31 Overcoming the Standard of Perfection in New Tech 00:37:46 Greg Jackson's Three Magic Wishes for Energy Reform 00:40:14 AI Data Centres and Localised Pricing 00:43:46 The Perception and Politics of Electric Vehicles 00:45:52 Behavioural Science: Social Copying and the Sigmoid Curve 00:48:21 The IKEA Effect: Loyalty through Sunk Effort 00:50:11 Induction Hobs and the Benefits of Electrification 00:51:03 Reframing Clean Tech as an "Energy Pension" 00:53:08 Preppers and "Freedom Cars" in Texas 00:54:39 The Success of Global EV Test Drives 00:56:53 Micro-Mobility and the Quiet Streets of China 01:00:08 Displacing Global Fossil Fuel Consumption 01:03:03 Symbolic Action vs. Meaningful Energy Change 01:04:45 Closing Remarks and Audience Farewell Why not come and join us at our next Everything Electric expo: www.everythingelectric.show Check out our sister channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/EverythingElectricShow Support our StopBurningStuff campaign: https://www.patreon.com/STOPBurningStuff Become an Everything Electric Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/fullychargedshow B

Rory Sutherland | Why Businesses Overinvest in Trivial Improvements Most businesses are optimising themselves into irrelevance. In this ActionCOACH Podcast episode, Ogilvy Vice Chairman Rory Sutherland reveals why your obsession with efficiency and benchmarking is destroying customer value and making you identical to your competitors. What You'll Learn: The Self-Checkout Fallacy: "Performative efficiency" that transfers costs to customers isn't efficiency at all. Businesses achieve notional cost savings that harm customer experience. Why Benchmarking Makes You a Loser: When everyone uses the same metrics, they become more similar and create hyper-competition. Fewer choices for consumers, businesses forced to compete on price alone. The High-Touch Premium Strategy: In an AI age where everyone will automate, go "high human, high touch" as premium positioning. Small discretionary gestures create disproportionate value. Why Big Ideas Take Time: Sutherland explains the adoption sigmoid curve. Mobile phones took 10 years to become socially acceptable. Short-term ROI measures mean you'll overinvest in trivial improvements and underinvest in what matters. Key Quotes: "The real value of marketing and marketers is not what they do, it's how they think." "When everybody optimises or benchmarks around the same thing, you automatically create an opportunity to be different." Rory Sutherland's Background: Rory Sutherland is Vice Chairman of Ogilvy, where he's spent 38 years pioneering the application of behavioural science in marketing. Author of "Alchemy," he's become one of marketing's most influential voices. Action Steps: If You're Making Business Decisions: Stop optimising for defensibility and start optimising for customer value. Question whether your "efficiency gains" are transferring costs to customers. If You're Launching Something New: Embrace the sigmoid curve. Don't panic if adoption is slow initially. Be patient. Significant innovations take time because they require behavioural change. For Everyone: Rewrite the question. Get comfortable with ambiguity and subjective judgment. Look for opportunities to add "critical non-essentials" that create disproportionate value. This episode is sponsored by Canva: Say goodbye to creative bottlenecks with Canva Enterprise. Use Magic Resize to instantly reformat one asset for any platform. Empower your team to design at scale, while maintaining total brand control. To find out more, visit canva.com/enterprise so you can turn teams into content powerhouses. Learn more at: https://www.canva.com/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Not every impression is equal. So, what makes mail different from a digital impression? In this episode of Mail Unleashed, JICMAIL’s Director of Data Leadership, Ian Gibbs, joins Rory Sutherland to discuss why mail demands attention that lasts longer, gets revisited, and works harder to drive consumer action and results. Together, they discuss: The 200 different ways that marketers measure campaign effectiveness Ian’s work with JICMAIL and the DMA Why mail delivers both short- and long-term marketing impact How mail plays to a different attention span than digital marketing Plus, they explore why physical mail keeps working long after the first glance. 00:00 Intro 00:41 Welcome to Ian 02:00 Ian’s work with JICMAIL and the DMA: The metrics he uses to measure the effectiveness of physical mail 04:30 Short term vs long term marketing impact: why mail delivers on both as a super touchpoint within the multi-media mix 09:10 The price of attention: Mail can generate 140 seconds of consumer attention across 28 days 10:51 The importance of creativity, physicality and targeting in performance marketing 14:30 Mail’s positive impact within an integrated marketing strategy, helping to drive effectiveness for brands 17:10 The context of the home: why mail delivers where and when people need it most 18:45 How JICMAIL is helping brands see the benefits of mail in the media mix 22:13 Outro Ian Gibbs is Director of Insight at the DMA and Director of Data Leadership and Learning at JICMAIL. With over 20 years’ experience in media and advertising measurement, he previously worked at Kantar and The Guardian. He also runs Data Stories Consulting, helping organisations harness effective measurement, research and insight. Follow Ian. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ian-gibbs-7b735619/ Follow Rory. LinkedIn - ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland/⁠ X - ⁠https://x.com/rorysutherland⁠ Watch the full episode. Website - ⁠https://www.marketreach.co.uk/mail-unleashed/nishma-patel-robb-the-glittersphere⁠ YouTube - <a href="https://youtu.be/KYfcEplYQtM" target="_blank" rel="

How can you build trust with your customers without physical stores or a tangible product? In this episode of Mail Unleashed, Sayed Hajamaideen, Head of Brand & Marketing at SMARTY Mobile, sits down with our seasoned host Rory Sutherland to discuss how mail can inject life into digital brands. Together, they explore: Sayed’s career journey from O2 to SMARTY Mobile How physical mail can be used to pique curiosity and deepen customer relationships Why marketers need to choose the right mediums to achieve results Why a combination of physical and digital media is so effective Listen in to find out how he uses mail to increase trust and turn promises into guarantees in our latest Mail Unleashed episode. 00:00 Intro 0:41 Welcome to Sayed 01:06 Sayed’s marketing journey from O2 to SMARTY Mobile 02:26 How Sayed uses physical mail to market an intangible product and build trust? 04:17 Direct mail piques curiosity: why marketers should use the right medium for the right purpose 06:53 How Sayed integrates mail with radio and TV marketing 07:53 Sayed’s top 3 tips for direct mail marketing 09:48 WARC’s research into long verses short-term efficacy of communication channels 11:24 Why a combination of marketing media is the most effective 12:11 Outro Sayed is a Senior Marketing Leader with years of experience in leading brands to fame and commercial success. He has worked for many of the UK’s biggest mobile brands including O2, Tesco Mobile and SMARTY Mobile. His passion lies in the art and science of how advertising can create and shift behaviours. Follow Sayed. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/sayed-hajamaideen-25403885/ Follow Rory. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland/ X - https://x.com/rorysutherland Watch the full episode. Website - https://www.marketreach.co.uk/mail-unleashed/sayed-hajamaideen-smarty-mobile YouTube - https://youtu.be/hz-EEeQdY3k Want to see how mail gets real results? Follow us for fresh marketin

How did mail help Tesco gain 21 million active members for its iconic Clubcard loyalty programme? You can find out from Tash Whitmey, Group Director of Loyalty, CRM and Marketing at Tesco. Together, Tash and host Rory Sutherland share: The inception of the Tesco Clubcard Loyalty Programme How Tesco Clubcard data has helped shape its business offering Why using both digital and physical media can create magical marketing moments Mail's role in Tesco's customers statements and why this is so important to both Tesco and its customers A successful direct mail campaign from Volvo Tune in for a wealth of brilliant insights and discover why the tactility of direct mail is the secret sauce in the marketing mix. 00:00 Intro 0:41 Welcome to Tash 01:38 Tash’s involvement with the iconic Tesco Clubcard Loyalty Programme 04:38 Why physical mail is an important channel to reach Tesco customers 05:38 How have the Clubcard mail statements and data shaped Tesco’s business offering? 07:11 Why are complimentary messages in different media formats more powerful? 09:14 Tash’s example of impactful direct mail – Volvo 12:57 Outro Tash Whitmey has over 25 years of Direct Marketing experience across big names like Tesco and Havas. She transformed Clubcard, launched a 4-million-strong rewards scheme, and has been recognised by Data IQ and Campaign A-list. A Marketing Society Fellow and former NED, she champions customer-first innovation. Follow Tash. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tash-whitmey-2b7b87184/ Follow Rory. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland/ X - https://x.com/rorysutherland Watch the full episode. Website - https://www.marketreach.co.uk/mail-unleashed/tash-whitmey-tesco YouTube - https://youtu.be/MqvybypNN7E Follow us for more marketing tips and insights on the value of mail in the marketing mix.⬇️ LinkedIn - https://www.lin

B2B marketing assumes buyers are rational. They probably aren’t. Buying decisions are shaped by fear, status, reassurance, and habit. Committees amplify uncertainty. Data increases confidence but not always wisdom. In this session, Rory Sutherland explores how B2B decisions are really made. What this means for ads, messaging, and persuasion. Why logic often loses to psychology. Why brands matter more in complex B2B than we like to admit. We’ll talk about measurement, but not as an answer machine. Data as a way to reduce noise. Not to replace judgment. Rory will challenge the idea that better dashboards automatically lead to better decisions. What effective ads actually do in high-risk B2B choices. And why over-optimisation can quietly destroy value. This session is for B2B marketers. For those navigating complex buying journeys. And for anyone who suspects that the real advantage lies in how marketing is framed, not just how it’s measured. Follow Rory Sutherland on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland/ Follow Steffen Hedebrandt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steffenhedebrandt/ Thanks for tuning in to the Attributed Dreamdata Podcast! We hope you enjoyed this episode as much as we enjoyed creating it. To stay updated on all things Dreamdata and B2B go-to-market: 👥 Follow us on LinkedIn: Dreamdata 💬 Join Our Community on Slack: Dreamdata Community 🎙️ Subscribe to Our Podcast: Don't miss out on future episodes! Follow us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and leave us a comment or review. 🔗 Visit Dreamdata's Website to see how we can help you connect your marketing to revenue: Dreamdata.io Join our next Live sessions: Leslie Venetz: Why Your B2B Outbound is Killing Your Brand Joe Glover: The Power of In-Person Events in the Age of AI Mark Ritson: Making B2B Marketing Work Better How to Win B2B LinkedIn Ads (272-Day Deals) with Anthony Blatner

Want to find out why mail can hold the attention of consumers? In this episode, host Rory Sutherland welcomes Media expert and The Barber Shop founder, Dino Myers-Lamptey, into the studio to share how mail can ramp up creativity and draw out dwell time to make brands stand out. Highlights from this episode include: Dino’s experience with direct mail The importance of physical media in an increasingly digital world The role of mail in helping the consumer on their journey to making a significant spending decision Why post-attention matters in marketing Listen in and find out which audiences are more likely to respond to mail over digital communications. 00:00 Intro 00:41 Welcome to Dino – Why the name “The Barber Shop”? 02:16 Dino’s career journey with direct mail in marketing 05:26: Dino and Rory discuss the need for physical media in a digital-led world 07:23 What’s the role of mail in complex customer decision making processes? 10:03 The power of printed catalogues 12:26 Post attention: Why long-lasting impressions matter 15:32 Rory argues why direct mail can help you target the right audience 16:44 Dino’s experience creating mail campaigns for charities 18:16 Want to find effective mail examples? Look at what’s coming through your door 19:47 Outro Dino Myers-Lamptey is the Founder of The Barber Shop and a strategic leader with over 17 years ’ in media. His expertise spans communications strategy, digital planning, direct-to-consumer subscription marketing, and ROMI performance. Dino has held senior roles at MullenLowe, the7stars, Mediacom, and more, launching standout campaigns and challenger brands. Follow Dino. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dinosaw/ X - https://x.com/thedinosaw Follow Rory. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland/ X - https://x.com/rorysutherland Watch the full episode here: Website - https://www.marketreach.co.uk/mail-unleashed/dino-myers-lamptey-the-barber-shop YouTube - <a href="https://youtu

Nine behavioral economics principles from Rory Sutherland that explain why CEO visibility and thought leadership actually work—beyond the fluffy "personal brand" stuff. About Rory Sutherland Vice-Chairman of Ogilvy UK Author of Alchemy: The Surprising Power of Ideas That Don't Make Sense TED speaker with millions of views Spectator columnist Core insight: Most business problems are problems of perception, not reality Recommended: Watch Sutherland debate Scott Galloway on the Uncensored CMO podcast The Nine Principles 1. The Flower and the Weed "A flower is simply a weed with an advertising budget." Being good is useless if you're not noticed. 2. The Barber's Paradox You can't cut the back of your own hair. The Curse of Knowledge makes experts terrible at explaining their own expertise. 3. The Red Bull Paradox The opposite of a good idea can also be a good idea. Red Bull won by being smaller, pricier, and worse-tasting. Counterintuitive positioning breaks through. 4. The Peacock's Tail (Costly Signaling Theory) Wasteful signals are credible signals. Consistent, substantive thought leadership demonstrates you're on top of your game. 5. The Frederick the Great Potato Strategy Persuasion beats compulsion. The best thought leadership doesn't feel like marketing—it feels like thinking. 6. The Rogue Bee Strategy Increase your surface area for luck. Every piece of content is a signal into the unknown. The Luck Formula: L = C × R × D^T L = Luck (opportunities that find you) C = Content (ideas you put out) R = Reach (who sees them) D = Differentiation (how memorable you are) T = Time (the compounding exponent) 7. The Uber Map Insight Most problems are problems of perception, not reality. Thought leadership changes how people perceive what you do. 8. The Diamond Shreddies Principle Reframe existing value. The best content helps people see what they hadn't noticed before. 9. The Doorman Fallacy You are the human signal that makes everything else feel more valuable. Investors buy people, not companies. Key Takeaway The value of thought leadership cannot be measured in conventional terms—and that's why it's valuable. If it were easy to measure, everyone would do it. "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts." — Sign in Einstein's office This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit morgansnyder.substack.com/subscribe

A History of Marketing / Episode 45 Today marks exactly one year since I hit publish on the very first episode of A History of Marketing . I wanted to do something special for the anniversary, so I’m happy to share my excellent conversation with Rory Sutherland . You may know Rory from his Ted Talks which have been viewed by millions, or his TikToks which have been viewed by tens of millions. He is the Vice Chairman at Ogilvy and the founder of their behavioral science practice. I’m a big fan of his book, Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life . As we discuss on the podcast, Alchemy is all about how marketers think, rather than just what we do. Listen to the podcast: Spotify / Apple Podcasts We also cover: * The real David Ogilvy: Rory shares about meeting David Ogilvy, and the parts of Ogilvy’s life you won’t find in his books, like his stint as a British spy in Washington during World War II. * The “Capital M” vs. “small m” marketing mistake: Why the industry got marketing wrong by turning it into a department rather than a way of thinking. * Behavioral science and business: How to practically apply behavioral science and “nudge” to marketing strategies. Rory has a way of using history and behavioral science to reveal “unseen opportunities” that most traditional data misses. This conversation changed how I think about the role of marketing, and I hope it does the same for you. Special Thanks: Thank you to Xiaoying Feng , a Marketing Ph.D. Candidate at Syracuse, who volunteers to review and edit transcripts for accuracy and clarity. And thank you to Paul Feldwick , whom you may remember from episode 30 of this podcast , for introducing me to Rory. Espionage, Aerophobia, and the “Hidden” Psychology of David Ogilvy Andrew Mitrak: I wanted to ask you about David Ogilvy . I wanted to start with him because he’s such a big figure, and I love his books. I haven’t actually discussed him that much on the podcast, and you’ve worked at Ogilvy since the late ‘80s. I’m wondering if you have an element of David Ogilvy’s success that you’ve learned from working at Ogilvy that I wouldn’t have learned from reading one of his books. Rory Sutherland: I only met him once, and I can date it more or less exactly because it was after the Eurostar opened—the tunnel train tunnel between France and the UK. David was absolutely terrified of flying. In fact, in lat

In a world littered with noise, why does a simple piece of mail still get the most attention? In our next Mail Unleashed episode, Head of Brand Marketing at Hiscox, Ed Birth is here to reveal how selling insurance doesn't have to be about fear. He’s joined Rory Sutherland to discuss: The surprising power of humour in creativity in the insurance sector. How mail’s ‘body language’ builds trust. How mail helps you gain a huge share of voice. Why a single piece of mail can get 132 seconds of attention. Plus, they share why fun beats fear in marketing. 00:00 Intro 00:41 Welcome to Ed – his journey from agency marketing to Head of Brand Marketing at Hiscox 02:48 How Hiscox’s marketing strategy differs from other insurance companies 06:44 The antidote to fear - The importance humour in creativity when bringing risks to life 07:51 Ed shares an example of fun and disruptive direct mail from Hiscox – the wine-stained letter 10:41 How the tangibility of direct mail helped Hiscox build trust, boost customer satisfaction and strengthen brand identity 17:38 Mail makes you 1 of 1. How mail grabs attention and your share of voice 21:56 Why multimedia campaigns are more effective than single channel campaigns 23:57 Outro Ed Birth is Head of Brand Marketing at Hiscox. With experience at The Gate London and Audacity, he brings expertise across advertising, integrated and digital marketing. Ed is passionate about creative, trust-building brand strategy. Follow Ed. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/luke-whitehorn/ X - https://x.com/LukeWhitehorn Follow Rory. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland/ X - https://x.com/rorysutherland Watch the full episode here: Website - https://www.marketreach.co.uk/mail-unleashed/luke-whitehorn-domestic-and-general YouTube - https://youtu.be/NrdoCcfAI78 Thinking of including mail in your media mix? Follow us on our socials for more great example

Subscribe to Heretics Clips now for explosive interviews that pull no punches: https://www.youtube.com/@hereticsclips/videos Why does it feel like we’re living in a world where everyone is permanently offended? In this fascinating Heretics interview, advertising legend, author, and behavioural economics expert Rory Sutherland takes us deep inside a culture obsessed with outrage, virtue signalling, and binary thinking. Known for his role as Vice Chairman of Ogilvy UK and his sharp, witty observations on human behaviour, Sutherland pulls apart the mechanics of “woke” culture — from the way social media rewards public outrage, to how virtue signalling has replaced meaningful debate. Inspired by thinkers like Douglas Murray and Chris Williamson, he examines how a hyper-triggered society is stifling free expression, creativity, and nuance. In this thought-provoking conversation, you’ll discover: Why Rory thinks binary thinking is making everyone dumber. How the constant search for offence is hurting genuine progress. The difference between real activism and performative virtue signalling. Why Greta Thunberg and similar figureheads have become symbols rather than problem-solvers. How advertising and branding play into the culture wars. Why outrage has become a currency in modern life — and who benefits from it. Andrew Gold challenges Rory on whether “wokeness” is a passing cultural phase or a deeper shift in societal norms. They explore how corporations, politics, and media have adapted to a world where triggered responses dominate the conversation, and whether it’s possible to bring back intelligent, good-faith debate. Sutherland’s background in marketing gives him a unique lens: he explains how emotional signalling — once the domain of brand strategy — has now taken over personal identity and political discourse. In a climate where people are more concerned about being seen as good than actually doing good, Rory asks whether we’ve lost sight of genuine problem-solving. Whether you agree with him or not, this is a must-watch for anyone tired of walking on eggshells in an age where the wrong word can get you cancelled. ➡️ Watch the full interview now and share your thoughts in the comments: Is modern society too easily triggered — or is this just cultural evolution? 🎥 Full interview here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jd9Wlb9l_Y #RorySutherland #Heretics #WokeCulture #VirtueSignalling #CancelCulture #GretaThunberg #BinaryThinking #CultureWar #FreeSpeech Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

📝 本期播客简介 本期节目，我们克隆了 Global Marketing Expert: The Playbook Behind Every Great Campaign | Rory Sutherland 邀请到全球营销专家 Rory Sutherland，深入探讨了在 AI 时代，人类决策的复杂性、企业追求效率的误区，以及营销与客户体验的深层逻辑。Rory 犀利指出，过度依赖量化指标和技术方案，往往会忽视“人”的因素和心理价值，导致企业优化目标与客户真实需求南辕北辙。他通过“门童谬论”、戴森的成功案例，以及对奢侈品消费、社会规范和创新传播的独到见解，揭示了看似“非理性”的人类行为，实则是深层进化和情感驱动的体现。本期节目不仅是一堂营销大师课，更是一次对商业和社会运作底层逻辑的深刻反思。 👨‍⚕️ 本期嘉宾 Rory Sutherland，全球营销专家，奥美广告公司（Ogilvy）副主席，行为科学领域的思想领袖，著有《旁观者》（Alchemy: The Dark Art and Curious Science of Creating Magic in Brands, Business, and Life）等畅销书。 🌟 精彩内容 💡 AI与人类决策的差异 Rory Sutherland 质疑 AI 在提供“完美方案”时的局限性，强调人类决策的复杂性，需要比较和选择，因为“没有比较，我们根本没法做选择。” 🛠️ 效率的误区与价值创造 企业在追求效率时，往往只关注成本降低，而忽视了创造价值和心理因素。Rory 认为“最高效的方式之一，就是雇一个特别特别好的人。” 🚀 “门童谬论”与人的价值 通过“门童谬论”揭示量化指标如何忽视人的价值。门童的隐性价值远超“开门”功能，包括安保、行李处理、客户关系等，这些“人性化的、潜移默化的”价值在简单定义中无法体现。 💻 私营公司与客户信任 戴森等私营公司的成功在于其更关注客户价值和长期关系，而非短期股东利益。Rory 认为他们“更好地照顾了消费者，因为他们实际上，在不经意间，成了‘客户价值运动’的实践者，而不是‘股东价值运动’的实践者。” ❤️ 营销的本质与行为改变 营销的真正目的是发现并盈利地留住客户。Rory 强调“创新的唯一真正衡量标准是行为改变”，大的创新需要更多营销来克服人类的习惯性和从众心理，促进行为改变。 🌐 播客信息补充 本播客采用原有人声声线进行播客音频制作，也可能会有一些地方听起来怪怪的 使用 AI 进行翻译，因此可能会有一些地方不通顺； 如果有后续想要听中文版的其他外文播客，也欢迎联系微信：iEvenight 在小宇宙查看该单集文稿

If mail is distinctive, does it become more memorable? Richard Shotton, behavioural scientist and author of The Choice Factory , and Rory Sutherland, get under the skin and into the minds of consumers. Together, they explain: Techniques brands can use to become more memorable The value of costly signalling How mail’s physicality can enhance engagement and attention Why Christian Aid Week’s mail campaign was a success Plus, they discuss fascinating behavioural studies that explain how people react to mail, what that means for brands and, most importantly, why. 00:00 Intro 00:41 Welcome to Richard 1:43 How long has Richard been an expert of direct mail? 03:06 Generations by Bobby Duffy – the relationship between Gen Z and direct mail 04:03: Richard explains why surprising requests are more noticeable 05:34 Why mail’s physicality can enhance engagement and build trust 09:32 Richard’s example of successful direct mail – Christian Aid Week 12:15 Outro Richard is the founder of Astroten and author of The Choice Factory and The Illusion of Choice, which is a best-selling book available in 16 languages. He specialises in applying behavioural science to marketing for brands like Google, BrewDog and Santander. He also co-hosts the podcast Behavioural Science for Brands . Follow Richard. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-shotton/ X - https://x.com/rshotton Follow Rory. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland/ X - https://x.com/rorysutherland Watch the full episode. Website - https://www.marketreach.co.uk/mail-unleashed/richard-shotton-the-choice-factory YouTube - https://youtu.be/pLKvb_ZrdkM Curious about the power of mail in your marketing mix? Follow us for fresh inspiration and real-world examples that show how mail delivers impressive business results. ⬇️ LinkedIn

Subscribe to Heretics Clips now for explosive interviews that pull no punches: https://www.youtube.com/@hereticsclips/videos Why do some people proudly adopt ideas that seem illogical, hypocritical, or even harmful — and then defend them at all costs? In this fascinating Heretics interview, world-renowned advertising executive and behavioural economics thinker Rory Sutherland breaks down the psychology behind the “woke” mindset. Vice Chairman of Ogilvy UK and one of the sharpest minds in marketing, Rory has spent decades studying how people think, behave, and make decisions — often irrationally. Here, he applies those same insights to the cultural battleground of modern identity politics, activism, and “woke” ideology. In this insightful and often hilarious conversation, you’ll discover: Why binary thinking has replaced nuance in today’s debates. How virtue signalling works as a form of social currency. Why “woke” beliefs often spread like advertising campaigns — and how the tactics mirror marketing psychology. The role of tribal loyalty and why some people cling to ideologies even when facts contradict them. How fear of social shaming can make intelligent people act irrationally. Why Rory believes cultural echo chambers are making society dumber. Rory also explores the emotional rewards that drive people to adopt these extreme positions — from belonging to moral superiority — and why arguing with them often backfires. Drawing on his background in behavioural science, he reveals how humans often make decisions emotion first, logic later. This is not just a rant about “wokeness” — it’s a deep dive into the underlying psychology that explains why movements like this gain traction, how they sustain themselves, and what it means for public discourse. Whether you agree with Rory or not, his analysis will make you think differently about the way people process ideas in the modern world. Smart, witty, and sometimes brutally honest, Rory Sutherland delivers a masterclass in cultural observation, blending behavioural economics with social commentary in a way only he can. ➡️ Watch the full interview now and join the debate: Are “woke” ideas a step forward for society — or proof we’ve lost our minds? 🎥 Full podcast here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jd9Wlb9l_Y #heretics #narcissism #woke #RorySutherland #BehaviouralEconomics #CulturalCommentary #VirtueSignalling Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In a world of rising digital scams, why does a simple piece of mail still reassure banking customers? Chief Marketing Officer at NatWest, Margaret Jobling, joins Rory Sutherland for this episode of Mail Unleashed to talk about the power of mail in the financial services. Throughout this episode, they discuss: NatWest’s sponsorship of Team GB at the Paris Olympics Why 71% of people trust physical mail Real data that shows mail outperforms email in response rates How mail still reassures customers in a world of rising digital scams Plus, they explore why mail is such an important touchpoint in banking, and how it helps you target the right moments. 00:00 Intro 00:41 Welcome to Margaret 01:25 Margaret talks through NatWest’s sponsorship of Team GB at the Paris Olympics 03:27 Direct mail’s role in building trust and authenticity in the financial services 05:32 Physical mail helps you target the right moment & how it has helped NatWest achieve long-term marketing impact 09:51 In a world of rising digital scams, mail can offer reassurance for banking customers 11:14 Why multiple touchpoints are important for NatWest and why mail is one of them 12:53 Data that shows campaigns with mail are more likely to show ROI benefits 15:42 Margaret’s experience with mail at Centrica and NatWest: how mail had the best response rates 18:46 Gen Z are more responsive to physical mail than you'd think 20:46 Outro Margaret Jobling is Chief Marketing Officer at NatWest Group. She is an experienced FTSE 100 business leader with a strong record in consumer goods and utilities. She specialises in customer experience, marketing transformation, consumer products, and insight-driven decision-making. Known for her strategic leadership and for driving measurable results, she consistently delivers impactful, customer-focused change across complex organisations. Follow Margaret. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaret-jobling-9741b513/ Follow Rory. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland/ X - https://x.com/rorysutherland Watch the full episode. Website - https://www.marketreach.co.uk/mail-unleash

Want to find out how mail can add value to a campaign and target your consumers? Ogilvy One’s former Head of Strategy, Kate Wheaton, joins Rory Sutherland on this Mail Unleashed episode, to share how mail has helped contribute to their success over the years. Together, they discuss: What makes mail a unique and irreplaceable part of the marketing mix Kate’s career journey from a small telemarketing & direct mail agency to Ogilvy One Why direct mail can build brand trust and grab attention How mail has earned its place in the mix in an increasingly digital world To find out what the future holds for this effective media channel, listen to the full episode. 00:00 Intro 00:41 Kate’s marketing journey from a telemarketing and direct mail agency to the Tesco Clubcard 02:06 Why a customer perspective is so important when choosing the right marketing medium 03:27 Kate’s examples of effective direct mail - Lloyds Bank & ME+EM 06:05 The relationship between mail and brand trust – The Change for Life campaign 09:06 Has marketing got an efficiency and cost cutting problem? 11:10 Outro Kate Wheaton is the former Head of Strategy at Ogilvy One, with a career spanning some of the UK’s most successful loyalty programmes. She’s worked with leading brands like Tesco, Sainsbury’s, Boots, and BA, blending strategic rigour with creativity to build modern loyalty experiences that drive engagement, retention, and long-term brand love. Follow Kate. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/katewheaton/ Follow Rory. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland/ X - https://x.com/rorysutherland Watch the full episode. Website - https://www.marketreach.co.uk/mail-unleashed/kate-wheaton-ogilvy-one YouTube - https://youtu.be/lM_2njydRCE Looking for innovative marketing ideas to spark your creativity. Follow us to get those creative juices flowing. ⬇️ LinkedIn - https

Is mail the key to building and maintaining strong customer relationships? In this episode of Mail Unleashed, former Group Membership & Loyalty Director at the AA, Natalie Milner, shares insights from her career, as she and Rory Sutherland sit down to discuss: The importance of making sure that customers feel valued Two examples of successful direct mail campaigns from Wickes and Loaf How mail can make customers feel appreciated Natalie’s experience with mail at the AA Tune in to find out why top brands are turning to mail for their loyalty programmes. 00:00 Intro 00:41 Welcome to Natalie 01:25 Natalie's first example of a successful mail campaign – Wickes 04:50 Natalie's second example of a successful mail campaign – Loaf 06:00 The AA and direct mail 06:51 The importance of having a holistic view in media selection 09:03 Why physical marketing makes an impact 12:09 Outro Natalie has years of experience working for big name brands like the AA, Curry’s plc and Wickes. She helps organisations transform their brand and customer experience by integrating media and connecting touchpoints to acquire, engage and retain more customers- increasing loyalty. Follow Natalie. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalie-milner-b65a601/ Follow Rory. LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/rorysutherland/ X - https://x.com/rorysutherland Watch the full episode. Website - https://www.marketreach.co.uk/mail-unleashed/natalie-milner-cmo YouTube - https://youtu.be/VVfz9WBaVxA Want to see how mail delivers big results? Follow us for fresh ideas and standout success stories. ⬇️ LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/marketreach-from-royal-mail/ X - https://x.com/MarketreachUK Facebook - <a href="https://www.facebook.

Rory Sutherland reveals a simple truth about branding: your attitude toward a company isn’t shaped by its logo or marketing - it’s shaped by people. In this clip, Rory shares a Royal Mail insight that changed how he sees branding. After extensive research, they found that people’s opinions of Royal Mail depended almost entirely on one thing… Whether they liked their postman. That discovery exposes a deeper truth about marketing and behavioral science: trust is personal, not corporate. Brands live and die through human interaction: not data, algorithms, or slogans. Rory explains why marketers must focus less on communication efficiency and more on emotional connection. The “postman effect” proves that great branding starts with real people doing ordinary things well - every single day. Have you ever loved a brand because of one great experience? Let us know in the comments. Subscribe for more Rory Sutherland insights on behavioral science, branding, and creativity.