Leanne Betasamosake SimpsonEvery podcast appearance, updated as new ones drop

This week we’re Tending Our Roots with Leanne Betasamosake Simpson, a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg writer, musician, and scholar. Leanne teaches through story, song, and movement — reminding us that knowledge lives in relationships. In her newest book, Theory of Water, she writes through creation and grief, showing how both are part of life’s continuous flow. Our own conversation with her moved like water — joyful, nurturing, and deeply rooted in Anishinaabe thought and Anishinaabe way of life. Leanne calls on us to skill up in care, accountability, and conflict resolution, teaching that deep care is a precursor to world-making. For her, creation and grief coexist, guiding how we build, live, and love together. Interested in learning more after our conversation? You can purchase Leanne’s latest book Theory of Water at Haymarket Books and listen to her latest album Live Like the Sky on Bandcamp or any streaming service. Tending Our Roots is co-hosted by Drs. Miigis Gonzalez (Lac Courte Oreilles Ojibwe) and Jill Fish (lineal descendent of the Tuscarora Nation). This podcast was funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation and supported by the CIRCLE P50 Center of Excellence funded through the National Institute on Drug Abuse of the National Institutes of Health (Award Number P50DA058619). The content is solely the responsibility of the authors and does not necessarily represent the official views of the National Institutes of Health. Production was completed by Solar Powered Studios in St. Paul, MN. Podcast artwork was completed by Marlena Myles , a Spirit Lake Dakota, Mohegan, Muscogee artist. The song, “The Best of Me” is used with the permission of Anishinaabe and First Nations singer-songwriter, Leonard Sumner .

What can we learn from water? In this live conversation from Tidelands in Seattle, Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg writer, musician, and scholar Leanne Betasamosake Simpson joins All My Relations to discuss her new book Theory of Water: Nishnaabe Maps to the Times Ahead , our second selection for the All My Relations Book Club. Leanne invites us to listen to water as both teacher and theorist, “Water changes forms from a solid to a liquid to a gas. It expands our understanding of time. It always escapes the container, and it connects us all.” Instead of centering land as the primary orientation point, she turns to water to imagine how we might build beyond the limits of the present. Together we explore grief, creation stories, Indigenous resurgence, and the difficult work of world-making in a time shaped by colonialism, racial capitalism, and ecological crisis. As Leanne reminds us, “Listening to water and thinking through world making means that we have to collaborate with each other… building against this present moment. That’s a struggle, but it’s a relational struggle to give birth to something different.” At its heart, this conversation asks what it means to create futures rooted in Indigenous intelligence, care, and responsibility—and what water might already be teaching us about how to begin. A/V Production by Francisco “Pancho” Sánchez @videosdelsancho Music by Mato Wayuhi @matowayuhi Produced by Matika Wilbur @matikawilbur Episode Artwork by Kitana Marie @creatortwahna Video Edit/Social Media by Mandy Yeahpau @dontguacbloc Text us your thoughts! Support the show Follow us on Instagram @amrpodcast, or support our work on Patreon . Show notes are published on our website, Allmyrelationspodcast.com. Matika's book Project 562: Changing the Way We See Native America is available now ! T'igwicid and Hyshqe for being on this journey with us.

Join us for the next event in the Haymarket Presents speakers series, as Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is joined by Uahikea Maile for a conversation on decolonial strategies that look to water as a catalyst for radical transformation. Co-sponsored by Pilsen Community Books In her powerful new book, Theory of Water, Leanne Betasamosake Simpson offers a radical rethinking of relationships between beings and forces in the world today. Simpson draws on Nishnaabeg origin stories while artfully weaving the work of influential writers and artists alongside her personal memories and experience—and in doing so, reimagines water as a catalyst for radical transformation, capable of birthing a new world. Theory of Water is a resonant exploration of an intricate, multi-layered relationship with the most abundant element on our planet—one that, as Simpson eloquently shows, is shaping our present even as it demands a radical rethinking of how we might achieve a just future. Theory of Water is a genre-bending exploration of that most elemental force–water–through Indigenous storytelling, personal memory, and the work of influential artists and writers. Speakers: Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, musician and member of Alderville First Nation. She holds a PhD from the University of Manitoba and is the author of seven previous books, including Rehearsals for Living with Robyn Maynard, and the novel Noopiming: A Cure for White Ladies. Her newest book is Theory of Water: Nishnaabe Maps to the Times Ahead. Dr. Uahikea Maile is a Kanaka Maoli scholar, organizer, and practitioner from Maunawili, Oʻahu. He is assistant professor in the Department of Race, Diaspora, and Indigeneity at the University of Chicago. Maile’s current book manuscript, Gifts of Sovereignty: Capitalism, Settler Colonialism, and Indigenous Politics in Hawaiʻi, examines the historical development and contemporary formation of settler colonial capitalism in Hawai‘i and gifts of sovereignty that seek to overturn it by issuing responsibilities for balancing relationships with ‘āina, the land and that who feeds. This event is co-sponsored by Pilsen Community Books and Haymarket Books, and is part of the Haymarket Presents speakers series. Watch the live event recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxWlazKmtQ4 Buy books from Haymarket: www.haymarketbooks.org

Leanne Betasamosake Simpson returns to discuss her new album Live Like the Sky , why people are so often air unaware, her book Theory of Water and how a world ending means a new one is beginning, the concept of generative refusal, lakes, oceans, skiing, running, and surfing, holding a tape recorder up to a car radio speaker to capture underground rock music in the 1980s and how those new wave and post-punk sounds inform this new record, learning to sing and making music that is fun even though the lyrics are heavy, touring, a new book, other future plans, and much more. EVERY OTHER COMPLETE KREATIVE KONTROL EPISODE IS ONLY ACCESSIBLE TO PATREON SUPPORTERS STARTING AT $6/MONTH. This one is fine, but if you haven’t already, please subscribe now on Patreon so you never miss full episodes. Thanks! Thanks to the Bookshelf , Planet Bean Coffee , and Grandad’s Donuts. Support Y.E.S.S. , Pride Centre of Edmonton , and Letters Charity . Follow vish online . Related episodes/links: Leanne Betasamosake Simpson Pushes Through Struggle to Celebrate Small Victories Ep. #1011: Saul Williams Ep. #742: Leanne Betasamosake Simpson Ep. #682: Steven Lambke Ep. #599: Leanne Betasamosake Simpson Ep. #205: Nick Ferrio Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/kreative-kontrol . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

“So I think that part of colonialism for Indigenous peoples has been this idea that Indigenous peoples aren't thinking peoples and that we don't have thought on a kind of systemic level. One of the things that I was interested in doing is intervening in that because I think Indigenous people have a lot of beautiful, very intellectual, theoretical contributions to make to the world. A lot of our theory is encoded in story, but a lot of our theory is also encoded in land-based practice. You can't learn about it from reading books or from going to lectures. You have to really be out on the land with elders for long periods of time.” In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Leanne Betasamosake Simpson about her new book, Theory of Water . Theory of Water is a rich, complex, and deeply personal reflection on world-making and life-giving processes best captured in the fluidity of water as it circulates through all our bodies and the planet. It is a largely collective project that enlists our listening and love, and helps us face the violence of all forms of dominance, enclosure, and containment. We are especially gifted to have the chance to listen to one of the songs from Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice , and have her comment on it and the relation of her music to her writing. This is a particularly special episode of Speaking Out of Place. Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, and musician. She is the author of eight previous books, including the novel Noopiming: A Cure for White Ladies, which was short listed for the Dublin Literary prize and the Governor General’s award for fiction. Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice, released by You’ve Changed Records in 2021 and short-listed for the Polaris Prize and she was the 2021 winner of the Prism Prize’s Willie Dunn Award. Her latest project Theory of Water was published by Knopf Canada/Haymarket books in the spring of 2025. Leanne is a member of Alderville First Nation. https://speakingoutofplace.com Bluesky @ palumboliu.bsky.social Instagram @ speaking_out_of_place

“So I think that part of colonialism for Indigenous peoples has been this idea that Indigenous peoples aren't thinking peoples and that we don't have thought on a kind of systemic level. One of the things that I was interested in doing is intervening in that because I think Indigenous people have a lot of beautiful, very intellectual, theoretical contributions to make to the world. A lot of our theory is encoded in story, but a lot of our theory is also encoded in land-based practice. You can't learn about it from reading books or from going to lectures. You have to really be out on the land with elders for long periods of time.” In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Leanne Betasamosake Simpson about her new book, Theory of Water . Theory of Water is a rich, complex, and deeply personal reflection on world-making and life-giving processes best captured in the fluidity of water as it circulates through all our bodies and the planet. It is a largely collective project that enlists our listening and love, and helps us face the violence of all forms of dominance, enclosure, and containment. We are especially gifted to have the chance to listen to one of the songs from Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice , and have her comment on it and the relation of her music to her writing. This is a particularly special episode of Speaking Out of Place. Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, and musician. She is the author of eight previous books, including the novel Noopiming: A Cure for White Ladies, which was short listed for the Dublin Literary prize and the Governor General’s award for fiction. Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice, released by You’ve Changed Records in 2021 and short-listed for the Polaris Prize and she was the 2021 winner of the Prism Prize’s Willie Dunn Award. Her latest project Theory of Water was published by Knopf Canada/Haymarket books in the spring of 2025. Leanne is a member of Alderville First Nation. https://speakingoutofplace.com Bluesky @ palumboliu.bsky.social Instagram @ speaking_out_of_place

“So I think that part of colonialism for Indigenous peoples has been this idea that Indigenous peoples aren't thinking peoples and that we don't have thought on a kind of systemic level. One of the things that I was interested in doing is intervening in that because I think Indigenous people have a lot of beautiful, very intellectual, theoretical contributions to make to the world. A lot of our theory is encoded in story, but a lot of our theory is also encoded in land-based practice. You can't learn about it from reading books or from going to lectures. You have to really be out on the land with elders for long periods of time.” In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Leanne Betasamosake Simpson about her new book, Theory of Water . Theory of Water is a rich, complex, and deeply personal reflection on world-making and life-giving processes best captured in the fluidity of water as it circulates through all our bodies and the planet. It is a largely collective project that enlists our listening and love, and helps us face the violence of all forms of dominance, enclosure, and containment. We are especially gifted to have the chance to listen to one of the songs from Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice , and have her comment on it and the relation of her music to her writing. This is a particularly special episode of Speaking Out of Place. Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, and musician. She is the author of eight previous books, including the novel Noopiming: A Cure for White Ladies, which was short listed for the Dublin Literary prize and the Governor General’s award for fiction. Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice, released by You’ve Changed Records in 2021 and short-listed for the Polaris Prize and she was the 2021 winner of the Prism Prize’s Willie Dunn Award. Her latest project Theory of Water was published by Knopf Canada/Haymarket books in the spring of 2025. Leanne is a member of Alderville First Nation. https://speakingoutofplace.com Bluesky @ palumboliu.bsky.social Instagram @ speaking_out_of_place

“So I think that part of colonialism for Indigenous peoples has been this idea that Indigenous peoples aren't thinking peoples and that we don't have thought on a kind of systemic level. One of the things that I was interested in doing is intervening in that because I think Indigenous people have a lot of beautiful, very intellectual, theoretical contributions to make to the world. A lot of our theory is encoded in story, but a lot of our theory is also encoded in land-based practice. You can't learn about it from reading books or from going to lectures. You have to really be out on the land with elders for long periods of time.” In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Leanne Betasamosake Simpson about her new book, Theory of Water . Theory of Water is a rich, complex, and deeply personal reflection on world-making and life-giving processes best captured in the fluidity of water as it circulates through all our bodies and the planet. It is a largely collective project that enlists our listening and love, and helps us face the violence of all forms of dominance, enclosure, and containment. We are especially gifted to have the chance to listen to one of the songs from Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice , and have her comment on it and the relation of her music to her writing. This is a particularly special episode of Speaking Out of Place. Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, and musician. She is the author of eight previous books, including the novel Noopiming: A Cure for White Ladies, which was short listed for the Dublin Literary prize and the Governor General’s award for fiction. Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice, released by You’ve Changed Records in 2021 and short-listed for the Polaris Prize and she was the 2021 winner of the Prism Prize’s Willie Dunn Award. Her latest project Theory of Water was published by Knopf Canada/Haymarket books in the spring of 2025. Leanne is a member of Alderville First Nation. https://speakingoutofplace.com Bluesky @ palumboliu.bsky.social Instagram @ speaking_out_of_place

“So I think that part of colonialism for Indigenous peoples has been this idea that Indigenous peoples aren't thinking peoples and that we don't have thought on a kind of systemic level. One of the things that I was interested in doing is intervening in that because I think Indigenous people have a lot of beautiful, very intellectual, theoretical contributions to make to the world. A lot of our theory is encoded in story, but a lot of our theory is also encoded in land-based practice. You can't learn about it from reading books or from going to lectures. You have to really be out on the land with elders for long periods of time.” In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Leanne Betasamosake Simpson about her new book, Theory of Water . Theory of Water is a rich, complex, and deeply personal reflection on world-making and life-giving processes best captured in the fluidity of water as it circulates through all our bodies and the planet. It is a largely collective project that enlists our listening and love, and helps us face the violence of all forms of dominance, enclosure, and containment. We are especially gifted to have the chance to listen to one of the songs from Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice , and have her comment on it and the relation of her music to her writing. This is a particularly special episode of Speaking Out of Place. Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, and musician. She is the author of eight previous books, including the novel Noopiming: A Cure for White Ladies, which was short listed for the Dublin Literary prize and the Governor General’s award for fiction. Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice, released by You’ve Changed Records in 2021 and short-listed for the Polaris Prize and she was the 2021 winner of the Prism Prize’s Willie Dunn Award. Her latest project Theory of Water was published by Knopf Canada/Haymarket books in the spring of 2025. Leanne is a member of Alderville First Nation. https://speakingoutofplace.com Bluesky @ palumboliu.bsky.social Instagram @ speaking_out_of_place

“So I think that part of colonialism for Indigenous peoples has been this idea that Indigenous peoples aren't thinking peoples and that we don't have thought on a kind of systemic level. One of the things that I was interested in doing is intervening in that because I think Indigenous people have a lot of beautiful, very intellectual, theoretical contributions to make to the world. A lot of our theory is encoded in story, but a lot of our theory is also encoded in land-based practice. You can't learn about it from reading books or from going to lectures. You have to really be out on the land with elders for long periods of time.” In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Leanne Betasamosake Simpson about her new book, Theory of Water . Theory of Water is a rich, complex, and deeply personal reflection on world-making and life-giving processes best captured in the fluidity of water as it circulates through all our bodies and the planet. It is a largely collective project that enlists our listening and love, and helps us face the violence of all forms of dominance, enclosure, and containment. We are especially gifted to have the chance to listen to one of the songs from Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice , and have her comment on it and the relation of her music to her writing. This is a particularly special episode of Speaking Out of Place. Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, and musician. She is the author of eight previous books, including the novel Noopiming: A Cure for White Ladies, which was short listed for the Dublin Literary prize and the Governor General’s award for fiction. Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice, released by You’ve Changed Records in 2021 and short-listed for the Polaris Prize and she was the 2021 winner of the Prism Prize’s Willie Dunn Award. Her latest project Theory of Water was published by Knopf Canada/Haymarket books in the spring of 2025. Leanne is a member of Alderville First Nation. https://speakingoutofplace.com Bluesky @ palumboliu.bsky.social Instagram @ speaking_out_of_place

“So I think that part of colonialism for Indigenous peoples has been this idea that Indigenous peoples aren't thinking peoples and that we don't have thought on a kind of systemic level. One of the things that I was interested in doing is intervening in that because I think Indigenous people have a lot of beautiful, very intellectual, theoretical contributions to make to the world. A lot of our theory is encoded in story, but a lot of our theory is also encoded in land-based practice. You can't learn about it from reading books or from going to lectures. You have to really be out on the land with elders for long periods of time.” In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Leanne Betasamosake Simpson about her new book, Theory of Water . Theory of Water is a rich, complex, and deeply personal reflection on world-making and life-giving processes best captured in the fluidity of water as it circulates through all our bodies and the planet. It is a largely collective project that enlists our listening and love, and helps us face the violence of all forms of dominance, enclosure, and containment. We are especially gifted to have the chance to listen to one of the songs from Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice , and have her comment on it and the relation of her music to her writing. This is a particularly special episode of Speaking Out of Place. Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, and musician. She is the author of eight previous books, including the novel Noopiming: A Cure for White Ladies, which was short listed for the Dublin Literary prize and the Governor General’s award for fiction. Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice, released by You’ve Changed Records in 2021 and short-listed for the Polaris Prize and she was the 2021 winner of the Prism Prize’s Willie Dunn Award. Her latest project Theory of Water was published by Knopf Canada/Haymarket books in the spring of 2025. Leanne is a member of Alderville First Nation. https://speakingoutofplace.com Bluesky @ palumboliu.bsky.social Instagram @ speaking_out_of_place

“So I think that part of colonialism for Indigenous peoples has been this idea that Indigenous peoples aren't thinking peoples and that we don't have thought on a kind of systemic level. One of the things that I was interested in doing is intervening in that because I think Indigenous people have a lot of beautiful, very intellectual, theoretical contributions to make to the world. A lot of our theory is encoded in story, but a lot of our theory is also encoded in land-based practice. You can't learn about it from reading books or from going to lectures. You have to really be out on the land with elders for long periods of time.” In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Leanne Betasamosake Simpson about her new book, Theory of Water . Theory of Water is a rich, complex, and deeply personal reflection on world-making and life-giving processes best captured in the fluidity of water as it circulates through all our bodies and the planet. It is a largely collective project that enlists our listening and love, and helps us face the violence of all forms of dominance, enclosure, and containment. We are especially gifted to have the chance to listen to one of the songs from Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice , and have her comment on it and the relation of her music to her writing. This is a particularly special episode of Speaking Out of Place. Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, and musician. She is the author of eight previous books, including the novel Noopiming: A Cure for White Ladies, which was short listed for the Dublin Literary prize and the Governor General’s award for fiction. Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice, released by You’ve Changed Records in 2021 and short-listed for the Polaris Prize and she was the 2021 winner of the Prism Prize’s Willie Dunn Award. Her latest project Theory of Water was published by Knopf Canada/Haymarket books in the spring of 2025. Leanne is a member of Alderville First Nation. https://speakingoutofplace.com Bluesky @ palumboliu.bsky.social Instagram @ speaking_out_of_place

“So I think that part of colonialism for Indigenous peoples has been this idea that Indigenous peoples aren't thinking peoples and that we don't have thought on a kind of systemic level. One of the things that I was interested in doing is intervening in that because I think Indigenous people have a lot of beautiful, very intellectual, theoretical contributions to make to the world. A lot of our theory is encoded in story, but a lot of our theory is also encoded in land-based practice. You can't learn about it from reading books or from going to lectures. You have to really be out on the land with elders for long periods of time.” In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Leanne Betasamosake Simpson about her new book, Theory of Water . Theory of Water is a rich, complex, and deeply personal reflection on world-making and life-giving processes best captured in the fluidity of water as it circulates through all our bodies and the planet. It is a largely collective project that enlists our listening and love, and helps us face the violence of all forms of dominance, enclosure, and containment. We are especially gifted to have the chance to listen to one of the songs from Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice , and have her comment on it and the relation of her music to her writing. This is a particularly special episode of Speaking Out of Place. Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, and musician. She is the author of eight previous books, including the novel Noopiming: A Cure for White Ladies, which was short listed for the Dublin Literary prize and the Governor General’s award for fiction. Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice, released by You’ve Changed Records in 2021 and short-listed for the Polaris Prize and she was the 2021 winner of the Prism Prize’s Willie Dunn Award. Her latest project Theory of Water was published by Knopf Canada/Haymarket books in the spring of 2025. Leanne is a member of Alderville First Nation. https://speakingoutofplace.com Bluesky @ palumboliu.bsky.social Instagram @ speaking_out_of_place

“So I think that part of colonialism for Indigenous peoples has been this idea that Indigenous peoples aren't thinking peoples and that we don't have thought on a kind of systemic level. One of the things that I was interested in doing is intervening in that because I think Indigenous people have a lot of beautiful, very intellectual, theoretical contributions to make to the world. A lot of our theory is encoded in story, but a lot of our theory is also encoded in land-based practice. You can't learn about it from reading books or from going to lectures. You have to really be out on the land with elders for long periods of time.” In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Leanne Betasamosake Simpson about her new book, Theory of Water . Theory of Water is a rich, complex, and deeply personal reflection on world-making and life-giving processes best captured in the fluidity of water as it circulates through all our bodies and the planet. It is a largely collective project that enlists our listening and love, and helps us face the violence of all forms of dominance, enclosure, and containment. We are especially gifted to have the chance to listen to one of the songs from Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice , and have her comment on it and the relation of her music to her writing. This is a particularly special episode of Speaking Out of Place. Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, and musician. She is the author of eight previous books, including the novel Noopiming: A Cure for White Ladies, which was short listed for the Dublin Literary prize and the Governor General’s award for fiction. Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice, released by You’ve Changed Records in 2021 and short-listed for the Polaris Prize and she was the 2021 winner of the Prism Prize’s Willie Dunn Award. Her latest project Theory of Water was published by Knopf Canada/Haymarket books in the spring of 2025. Leanne is a member of Alderville First Nation. https://speakingoutofplace.com Bluesky @ palumboliu.bsky.social Instagram @ speaking_out_of_place

“So I think that part of colonialism for Indigenous peoples has been this idea that Indigenous peoples aren't thinking peoples and that we don't have thought on a kind of systemic level. One of the things that I was interested in doing is intervening in that because I think Indigenous people have a lot of beautiful, very intellectual, theoretical contributions to make to the world. A lot of our theory is encoded in story, but a lot of our theory is also encoded in land-based practice. You can't learn about it from reading books or from going to lectures. You have to really be out on the land with elders for long periods of time.” In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Leanne Betasamosake Simpson about her new book, Theory of Water . Theory of Water is a rich, complex, and deeply personal reflection on world-making and life-giving processes best captured in the fluidity of water as it circulates through all our bodies and the planet. It is a largely collective project that enlists our listening and love, and helps us face the violence of all forms of dominance, enclosure, and containment. We are especially gifted to have the chance to listen to one of the songs from Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice, and have her comment on it and the relation of her music to her writing. This is a particularly special episode of Speaking Out of Place. Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, and musician. She is the author of eight previous books, including the novel Noopiming: A Cure for White Ladies, which was short listed for the Dublin Literary prize and the Governor General’s award for fiction. Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice, released by You’ve Changed Records in 2021 and short-listed for the Polaris Prize and she was the 2021 winner of the Prism Prize’s Willie Dunn Award. Her latest project Theory of Water was published by Knopf Canada/Haymarket books in the spring of 2025. Leanne is a member of Alderville First Nation. https://speakingoutofplace.com Bluesky @ palumboliu.bsky.social Instagram @ speaking_out_of_place

This special live episode of Explore features a thought-provoking conversation about the deep importance of our relationship with water between host David McGuffin and acclaimed Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, and musician Leanne Betasamosake Simpson, recorded at the Ottawa Writers Festival in May. Leanne discusses her latest book, The Theory of Water: Nishnaabe Maps to the Times Ahead, a genre-defying work that weaves together traditional storytelling, theory, and land-based knowledge. Through various lenses — skiing, eels, beavers, canoes, shorelines — Simpson reflects on the interconnectedness of people, water, and the natural world, and on how we might reimagine our relationships in a time of climate grief and transformation. This live conversation touches on land based learning, Indigenous ethics, and the hopeful possibilities of communal learning, all grounded in Simpson’s unique voice as both an academic and artist. Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is an award winning, best-selling Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, artist, and musician. She is the author of eight books, including the award-winning Noopiming: The Cure for White Ladies and As We Have Always Done: Indigenous Freedom Through Radical Resistance. Her newest work, The Theory of Water: Nishnaabe Maps to the Times Ahead, continues her powerful exploration of land-based knowledge, community, and hope. Simpson has been widely recognized for her contributions to Indigenous thought, activism, and the arts. She is a member of Alderville First Nation and is based in Peterborough, Ontario.

Join Leanne Betasamosake Simpson for a conversation with Sarah Haley to celebrate the release of her new book Theory of Water: Nishnaabe Maps to the Times Ahead. In her powerful new book, Theory of Water, Leanne Betasamosake Simpson offers a radical rethinking of relationships between beings and forces in the world today. Simpson draws on Nishnaabeg origin stories while artfully weaving the work of influential writers and artists alongside her personal memories and experience—and in doing so, reimagines water as a catalyst for radical transformation, capable of birthing a new world. Theory of Water is a resonant exploration of an intricate, multi-layered relationship with the most abundant element on our planet—one that, as Simpson eloquently shows, is shaping our present even as it demands a radical rethinking of how we might achieve a just future. Theory of Water is a genre-bending exploration of that most elemental force–water–through Indigenous storytelling, personal memory, and the work of influential artists and writers. Speakers: Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, musician and member of Alderville First Nation. She holds a PhD from the University of Manitoba and is the author of seven previous books, including Rehearsals for Living with Robyn Maynard, and the novel Noopiming: A Cure for White Ladies. Her newest book is Theory of Water: Nishnaabe Maps to the Times Ahead. Sarah Haley ’s work focuses on questions of carceral gendering and the long history of Black women’s ensnarement in U.S. prison regimes as well as their historical and ongoing opposition to carceral power. Her research interests include gender and carceral history, Black feminist history and theory, queer studies, prison abolition, and feminist archival methods. She is the author of No Mercy Here: Gender, Punishment, and the Making of Jim Crow Modernity, published in 2016. Her essays and articles have appeared in edited volumes as well as in journals including Signs, The Journal of African American History, GLQ, Souls, and Women & Performance. She is working on a book titled The Carceral Interior: A Black Feminist Study of American Punishment, 1966-2016. She is associate professor of gender studies and history at Columbia University and has been active in abolitionist and labor movements and currently organizes with Scholars for Social Justice. Get the book: https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/2533-theory-of-water Watch the live event recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4_5HpR9GOY Buy books from Haymarket: www.haymarketbooks.org

Today on Speaking Out of Place I talk with Leanne Betasamosake Simpson about her new book, Theory of Water . Theory of Water is a rich, complex, and deeply personal reflection on world-making and life-giving processes best captured in the fluidity of water as it circulates through all our bodies and the planet. It is a largely collective project that enlists our listening and love, and helps us face the violence of all forms of dominance, enclosure, and containment. We are especially gifted to have the chance to listen to one of the songs from Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice , and have her comment on it and the relation of her music to her writing. This is a particularly special episode of Speaking Out of Place. Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, and musician. She is the author of eight previous books, including the novel Noopiming: A Cure for White Ladies, which was short listed for the Dublin Literary prize and the Governor General’s award for fiction. Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice, released by You’ve Changed Records in 2021 and short-listed for the Polaris Prize and she was the 2021 winner of the Prism Prize’s Willie Dunn Award. Her latest project Theory of Water was published by Knopf Canada/Haymarket books in the spring of 2025. Leanne is a member of Alderville First Nation.

What would it mean for our writing, thinking, and living if we looked to land as pedagogy, or if we thought of theory as something embodied and kinetic? In Theory of Water Leanne Betasamosake Simpson takes us not only outside the academy, and away from our screens, but outside and into the world at large as part of a reconsideration of what and whom we consider teachers and mentors, of where and how we might learn and develop our thoughts, and of what the role of stories and storytelling might really be. Theory of Water ultimately explores what this reorientation might do, not only to our writing and our relation to language, but to our politics, our vision of a future world, and how we might arrive there together. Looking to water, to snow, to ice, to eels, to beavers, to bullfrogs, we explore what the more-than-human world can teach us about resistance and coexistence both. For the bonus audio archive Leanne contributes a sneak peek at a song of hers, “Murder of Crows,” that will be on her upcoming album Live Like the Sky (which will likely be released some time this fall). To learn about the bonus audio archive and all the other potential rewards and benefits of joining the Between the Covers community, head over to the show’s Patreon page . Finally, here is the BookShop for today.

In episode 7, Lydia Ayame Hiraide speaks to Dr. Leanne Betasamosake Simpson about Indigenous modes of resistance against settler domination across Turtle Island. Leanne and Lydia talk about transnational social movement organising, land, solidarity, and creative strategies for resurgence. Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is a renowned Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer and artist, who has been widely recognized as one of the most compelling Indigenous voices of her generation. Her work breaks open the intersections between politics, story and song—bringing audiences into a rich and layered world of sound, light, and sovereign creativity. Working for two decades as an independent scholar using Nishnaabeg intellectual practices, Leanne has lectured and taught extensively at universities across Canada and the United States and has over twenty years experience with Indigenous land based education. She holds a PhD from the University of Manitoba and is member of Alderville First Nation. Leanne is the author of eight books, including A Short History of the Blockade and the novel Noopiming: The Cure for White Ladies which was short listed for the Governor General’s Literary Award for fiction and the Dublin Literary Prize. This Accident of Being Lost was a finalist for the Rogers Writers’ Trust Fiction Prize and the Trillium Book Award. Her new project, a collaboration with Robyn Maynard, Rehearsals for Living, is a National Best Seller and was short listed for the Governor General’s Literary Award for non-fiction. Leanne is also a musician. Her latest release Theory of Ice was named to the Polaris Prize short list, and she is the 2021 winner of the Prism Prize’s Willie Dunn Award. Lydia Ayame Hiraide is a Postdoctoral Research Fellow at the Feminist Centre for Racial Justice. Interviewer : Lydia Ayame Hiraide Interviewee : Dayna Ash Produced by : The Feminist Centre for Racial Justice Recording, editing : Lydia Ayame Hiraide Additional editing, transcription, design : Ellan A. Lincoln-Hyde Music : Broken RNB Instrumental by The Audio Way, freesound.org; ⁠ Inn Ann ⁠ by Daboor; ⁠Snoopy⁠ by Sandy Chamoun

Editor's note: We had some technical difficulties and lost significant portions of this episode, one of which Nick re-recorded afterward. Apologies for the at times disjointed conversation TRN Podcast co-host Nick Estes (@nickwestes) is joined by TRN comrades Uahikea Maile (@uahikea) and Leanne Betasamosake Simpson to discuss the shared solidarities between Native people in Palestine and Turtle Island and the public letter signed by over 132 Native activists, artists, and intellectuals in solidarity with Palestine. "As Indigenous peoples, we condemn the increase in anti-Palestinian, anti-Islamic, and anti-Arab violence everywhere. We condemn the increase in anti-Indigenous violence everywhere. We condemn anti-Jewish violence everywhere. We condemn punishing workers, students, artists, politicians, and academics for supporting Palestinian liberation. We recognize that Zionism is a form of racism and a colonial ideology that does not represent the views of all Jewish people throughout the world." Read the full public statement https://therednation.org/statement-of-indigenous-solidarity-with-palestine/ Watch the video edition on The Red Nation Podcast YouTube channel Support www.patreon.com/redmediapr

In this special bonus episode of 20 or 20 , Weajue met up with Leanne Betasamosake Simpson before her performance at the Tkaronto Music Festival in June 2023. Her latest album, 2021's Theory of Ice , continues her tradition of weaving her Anishinaabe and Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg roots into lyrical masterpieces. Tune in as we discuss her recent travels, connecting with youth, and her love of dates.

Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg author, scholar, writer, advocate, and musician, Leanne Betasamosake Simpson discusses the 2022 bestseller, Rehearsals for Living , which she co-wrote with Robyn Maynard , Indigenous and Black people’s shared lived experiences and perspectives, parenting and pedagogy, all of the coups, loving Dr. Clarence J. Munford , abolition, hope, future plans, and much more. Supported by you on Patreon , Pizza Trokadero , the Bookshelf , Planet Bean Coffee , and Grandad’s Donuts. Support Y.E.S.S. and Black Women United YEG . Follow vish online . Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/kreative-kontrol . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this conversation Robyn Maynard and Leanne Betasamosake Simpson return to the podcast for the second conversation on their book Rehearsals For Living ( part one is here ). This conversation was recorded in late October, about a month after recording the first part. Most of these questions were conversations from the reading which we just weren't able to ask during our first conversation due to time constraints. In this conversation we talk more about architects of climate catastrophe in Toronto, about fascist monsters, and we talk about cooptation and elite capture. We also discuss moments of intense spectacle and important organizing and world-making that takes place all the time outside of the light of media attention. Robyn reflects on the spread of abolitionist ideas into the mainstream and Leanne discusses prominent scholarship within settler colonial studies in the academy and the disconnect between that and indigenous forms of knowledge. Once again, Rehearsals for Living is a really powerful read and we encourage you to pick it up from Haymarket Books or from your local bookstore. As we release this episode, we're just 2 patrons away from hitting our goal for the month of November, which was to add 30 patrons to make up for non-renewals and continue to grow. If you appreciate conversations like this and the other 175 episodes of this podcast, you can help sustain our work at patreon.com/millennialsarekillingcapitalism

Robyn Maynard and Leanne Betasamosake Simpson speak in this session recorded at Socialism 2022. Join the authors of Rehearsals for Living for an exchange of Black and Indigenous perspectives, the historical legacies of slavery and colonization, and to collectively envision the possibilities for more liberatory futures during a historic moment of Indigenous land defense, prison strikes, and global-Black-led rebellions against policing. Learn more about the Socialism Conference at www.socialismconference.org. Buy books from Haymarket: www.haymarketbooks.org Follow Haymarket on Soundcloud for regular event recordings, book talks, political analyses and poetry readings: soundcloud.com/haymarketbooks

In this conversation we speak with Robyn Maynard and Leanne Betasamosake Simpson Robyn is the author of the bestselling and award-winning book Policing Black Lives: State Violence in Canada from Slavery to the Present . She is also an assistant professor of Black Feminisms in Canada at University of Toronto. She also has a lengthy history of writing about and organizing with social movements against borders, state violence and for abolition. Leanne is a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, musician, and member of Alderville First Nation. She is the author of seven books including A Short History of the Blockade and As We Have Always Done: Indigenous Freedom through Radical Resistance . In this conversation we discuss their latest book Rehearsals for Living . This will be part 1 of a 2 part discussion with the authors. Robyn and Leanne discuss world-endings and world-building as realities and practices of Black and Indigenous existence and resistance. They talk about grappling with building a necessary relationality and solidarity between Black and Indigenous movements in so-called Canada as well as internationally against white supremacy, capitalism, settler colonialism and other structures of violence and domination. They also talk about ways of living that are necessary to recall and to continue or renew practices of in the face of already existing climate change and devastation. And they discuss how social movements build upon each other continuing to produce knowledge that grows and sustains and builds their capacity for stronger bonds of solidarity and more effective modes of resistance. As a note there is a portion of this episode and of Rehearsals for Living that builds on a conversation we published with Stefano Harney and Fred Moten back in July of 2020. Here is a link to that conversation for anyone who wants that context or wants to revisit it after hearing Leanne's reflections. Rehearsals for Living is a really powerful read and we encourage you to pick it up from Haymarket Books or from your local bookstore. This is our fourth episode of the month, we've just hit our goal of adding 25 patrons for the month. We want to thank everyone who signed up to support the show this month. It is only through the support of our listeners through patreon that we are able to sustain this work. If you would like to join them in supporting the show and its hosts and continue to grow our work, you can become a patron of the show for as little as $1 a month at patreon.com/millennialsarekillingcapitalism .

Join Robyn Maynard & Leanne Betasamosake Simpson for a discussion on abolitionist horizons for a world in crisis, hosted by Naomi Murakawa. When much of the world entered pandemic lockdown in spring 2020, Robyn Maynard, influential author of Policing Black Lives, and Leanne Betasamosake Simpson, award-winning author of several books, including the recent novel Noopiming, began writing each other letters—a gesture sparked by friendship and solidarity, and by a desire for kinship and connection in a world shattering under the intersecting crises of pandemic, police killings, and climate catastrophe. Their letters soon grew into a powerful exchange on the subject of where we go from here. Rehearsals is a captivating book, part debate, part dialogue, part lively and detailed familial correspondence between two razor-sharp writers convening on what it means to get free as the world spins into some new orbit. In a genre-defying exchange, the authors collectively envision the possibilities for more liberatory futures during a historic year of Indigenous land defense, prison strikes, and global-Black-led rebellions against policing. By articulating to each other Black and Indigenous perspectives on our unprecedented here and now, and the long-disavowed histories of slavery and colonization that have brought us to this moment in the first place, Maynard and Simpson create something new: a vital demand for a different way forward, and a poetic call to dream up new ways of ordering earthly life. Get Rehearsals for Living from Haymarket: https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/1880-rehearsals-for-living --------------------------------------------------------- Speakers: Robyn Maynard is an award-winning Black feminist scholar-activist based in Toronto, and the author of the national bestseller Policing Black Lives: State violence in Canada from slavery to the present. Her writings on policing, feminism, abolition, and Black liberation are taught widely across North America and Europe. Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is a renowned Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer and artist, who has been widely recognized as one of the most compelling Indigenous voices of her generation. Leanne is the author of seven books, including her 2021 novel Noopiming: The Cure for White Ladies, which was named a best book of the year by the Globe and Mail, and was shortlisted for the Governor General’s Literary Award for fiction. Naomi Murakawa is an associate professor of African American Studies at Princeton University. She studies the reproduction of racial inequality in 20th and 21st century American politics, with specialization in crime policy and the carceral state. She is the author of The First Civil Right: How Liberals Built Prison America. She is the editor of the Abolitionist Papers book series at Haymarket Books. Watch the live event recording: https://youtu.be/tyi8oO4oU5U Buy books from Haymarket: www.haymarketbooks.org Follow us on Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/haymarketbooks

We discuss the new book by Robyn Maynard (@policingblack) & Leanne Betasamosake Simpson about abolition from Black and Indigenous movements. Out now from Haymarket: https://www.haymarketbooks.org/books/1880-rehearsals-for-living

Please visit https://thebookvoice.com/podcasts/1/audiobook/597894 to listen full audiobooks. Title: Rehearsals for Living Author: Leanne Betasamosake Simpson, Robyn Maynard Narrator: Prince Amponsah, Robyn Maynard, Leanne Betasamosake Simpson, Marcia Johnson Format: Unabridged Audiobook Length: 8 hours 15 minutes Release date: June 14, 2022 Ratings: Ratings of Book: 5 of Total 2 Ratings of Narrator: 5 of Total 1 Genres: History & Culture Publisher's Summary: NATIONAL BESTSELLER ONE OF THE CBC'S BEST CANADIAN NONFICTION BOOKS OF 2022 A revolutionary collaboration about the world we're living in now, between two of our most important contemporary thinkers, writers and activists. When the world entered pandemic lockdown in spring 2020, Robyn Maynard, influential author of Policing Black Lives, and Leanne Betasamosake Simpson, renowned artist, musician, and author of Noopiming: The Cure for White Ladies, began writing each other letters—a gesture sparked by a desire for kinship and connection in a world shattering under the intersecting crises of pandemic, police killings, and climate catastrophe. These letters soon grew into a powerful exchange about where we go from here. Rehearsals for Living is a captivating and visionary work—part debate, part dialogue, part lively and detailed familial correspondence between two razor-sharp writers. By articulating to each other Black and Indigenous perspectives on our unprecedented here and now, and reiterating the long-disavowed histories of slavery and colonization that have brought us to this moment, Maynard and Simpson create something new: an urgent demand for a different way forward, and a poetic call to dream up other ways of ordering earthly life.

Nominated by Ottawa Public Library, Canada The 2022 DUBLIN Literary Award longlist of 79 books has been painstakingly narrowed down to a shortlist of just 6 titles; this exclusive limited podcast series, hosted by Jessica Traynor and Séan Hewitt, is designed to give you access to the authors and translators behind the books. In this episode, Jessica and Seán discuss ‘Noopiming: The Cure for White Ladies’, nominated by Ottawa Public Library, Canada. Their conversation is followed by an interview with the author, Leanne Betasamosake Simpson. Leanne is a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg writer, scholar, musician, and member of the Alderville First Nation. Interrogating the intersections between politics, story, song, Leanne has created an essential work of decolonisation, a hymn to the natural world, and a reclamation of indigenous culture. The DUBLIN Literary Award, sponsored by Dublin City Council, is the world’s most valuable annual prize for a single work of fiction published in English, worth €100,000 to the winner. Nominated by libraries around the world, all the books on the shortlist can be read in both physical and digital formats, from libraries around the country and through BorrowBox. Tune in on May 19th when the winner is announced as part of the International Literature Festival Dublin. ___ Jessica Traynor’s debut Liffey Swim was shortlisted for the Strong/Shine Award, and The Quick was an Irish Times poetry choice. She co-edited Correspondences, an anthology to call for an end to direct provision with actor Stephen Rea. Seán Hewitt is a poet, lecturer and critic based in Dublin. His debut collection, Tongues of Fire (Jonathan Cape, 2020) won The Laurel Prize in 2021. His memoir, All Down Darkness Wide (Jonathan Cape, 2022), will be published this summer. Presented in partnership with the DUBLIN Literary Award, a Dublin City Council initiative.