Nathalie TocciEvery podcast appearance, updated as new ones drop

Max and Donatienne discuss recent elections in Slovenia and Denmark, a referendum on judicial reforms in Italy, and Mark Rutte’s recent statements on the war in Iran. Then, they turn to a conversation with Nathalie Tocci, Director of the Istituto Affari Internazionali (IAI), for a conversation on Europe’s place in the world. (00:00) Intro (00:50) Slovenia election (04:40) Denmark election (10:20) Italy judicial reform referendum (15:58) Mark Rutte’s Sunday show appearances (22:03) Nathalie Tocci Learn more: Russian Roulette | CSIS Podcasts Europe Needs an ASAP Program for Air Defense

Just a few weeks after its opening salvos, the war in Iran is already going global. Iran has effectively closed the Strait of Hormuz, stranding oil tankers and causing energy prices to skyrocket. Donald Trump has asked European partners to help restore freedom of navigation. So far, they have largely rebuffed his requests for military assistance. But as the economic pain mounts, their resolve will surely be tested. Europe’s difficult position is indicative of a dilemma the continent’s leaders have faced since Trump’s return: whether to marshal their resources and will to push back against Trump’s coercion, or to give in to it. In 2025, according to the political scientists Nathalie Tocci and Matthias Matthijs, they chose wrong. “Instead of insisting on bargaining with the United States as an equal partner,” Tocci and Matthijs wrote in a recent essay in Foreign Affairs , Europe “reflexively and consistently adopted a posture of submission.” But this year, Europe seems to have begun to stand up to the United States. In January, it strongly rejected Trump’s posturing over Greenland. Now, with Washington pressuring European countries to support its war on Iran, Europe may have no choice but to assert itself. Deputy Editor Chloe Fox spoke with Tocci and Matthijs on Tuesday, March 24, about the choices facing Europe in the age of Trump. You can find sources, transcripts, and more episodes of The Foreign Affairs Interview at https://www.foreignaffairs.com/podcasts/foreign-affairs-interview .

In my inaugural episode, I sit down with Nathalie Tocci — Director of the Istituto Affari Internazionali, former special advisor to EU High Representatives Mogherini and Borrell, and one of Europe's leading voices on foreign policy. From Trump's legacy to Greenland, from Iran's streets to Meloni's true intentions, we map the global state of liberal democracy — where it's crumbling, where it's holding, and what we can do about it. In this episode: ​What the US can (and cannot) resist ​Venezuela, Iran, and the limits of protest ​Is a new colonial order emerging? ​Europe's internal enemies ​One concrete thing you can do to defend democracy With reason, not rage. Timestamps: 0:57 What is your Budapest? 4:55 Trump's legacy for the United States 6:38 The errors analysts make 8:32 US vs the illiberal virus: past vs present 12:15 From Venezuela to Greenland: the changing liberal order 21:50 What oppositions in Iran and Venezuela can expect 27:00 A new colonial order? 31:55 European liberal democracies today 41:19 The enemy within Europe 44:55 Mamdani's victory explained 49:45 What Meloni really thinks 52:00 What we can do to defend democracy 52:27 Conclusions Author and host: Ivan Scalfarotto Editor and social media: Ludovica Taurisano Graphic designer: Paola De Bartolo Visual identity: Martina Santurri Sound designer: Enrico Cabua

How is Italy positioning itself in the struggle for leadership in Europe? Will the surge of far-right movements determine the EU agenda? And will the European Union finally become a global player in its own right? Leszek Jazdzewski (Fundacja Liberte!) talks with Nathalie Tocci, Director of the Istituto Affari Internazionali, Honorary Professor at the University of Tübingen, and an independent non-executive director of Acea and Europe’s Futures fellow at the Institute for Human Sciences (Institut für die Wissenschaften vom Menschen, IWM). She has been Special Advisor to EU High Representatives Federica Mogherini and Josep Borrell. In that capacity, she wrote the European Global Strategy and worked on its implementation. Tune in for their talk! This podcast is produced by the European Liberal Forum in collaboration with Movimento Liberal Social and Fundacja Liberté!, with the financial support of the European Parliament. Neither the European Parliament nor the European Liberal Forum are responsible for the content or for any use that be made of.

In this episode, Director of Rome's Institute for International Affairs and 22/23 Europe's Futures Fellow of IWM and ERSTE Foundation Nathalie Tocci joins Ivan Vejvoda to offer her assessment of the European response to the full-scale Russian Invasion of Ukraine. From the often surprising unity and speed with which the EU has adapted to economic, energy and geopolitical challenges to the more fraught issues of security and defence where a clear European purpose has been less in evidence, Nathalie and Ivan discuss the strengths and shortcomings that have been revealed by the war. Looking to the future, they also address the shifting power centres within the EU, the interaction of continent-wide forces with local concerns and the consequences of the war for the psychology of enlargement policy and other EU wide concerns. Nathalie Tocci is a researcher and advisor in the field of international relations and European affairs. She has worked at various institutions including the Centre for European Policy Studies in Brussels, the Robert Schuman Centre for Advanced Studies in the European University Institute, and the Istituto Affari Internazionali where she became the Director in 2017. Tocci has also served as an advisor to Federica Mogherini and Josep Borrell on foreign policy issues. She has published several books on international relations with a focus on European affairs and received the Anna Lindh Award on European Foreign Policy in 2008. She writes regularly for Politico. She is an Honorary Professor at the University of Tübingen and an Adjunct Professor at the European Union Institute EUI. You can read her Politico Columns here Find Nathalie on twitter @NathalieTocci Ivan Vejvoda is Head of the Europe's Futures program at IWM where, in cooperation with leading European organisations and think tanks IWM and ERSTE Foundation have joined forces to tackle some of the most crucial topics: nexus of borders and migration, deterioration in rule of law and democracy and European Union’s enlargement prospects. The Institute for Human Sciences (IWM) is an independent institute for advanced study in the humanities and social sciences. Since its foundation in 1982, it has promoted intellectual exchange between East and West, between academia and society, and between a variety of disciplines and schools of thought. In this way, the IWM has become a vibrant center of intellectual life in Vienna. The IWM is a community of scholars pursuing advanced research in the humanities and social sciences. For nearly four decades, the Institute has promoted intellectual exchange across disciplines, between academia and society, and among regions of the world. It hosts more than a hundred fellows each year, organizes public exchanges, and publishes books, articles, and digital fora. you can find IWM's website at: https://www.iwm.at/ Ivan Vejvoda is Head of the Europe's Futures program at the Institute for Human Sciences (IWM Vienna) implemented in partnership with ERSTE Foundation . The program is dedicated to the cultivation of knowledge and the generation of ideas addressing pivotal challenges confronting Europe and the European Union: nexus of borders and migration, deterioration in rule of law and democracy and European Union’s enlargement prospects. The Institute for Human Sciences is an institute of advanced studies in the humanities and social sciences.